Zapis stenograficzny (1143) 87. posiedzenie.rplvml2fkurq\urgrzlvnd w dniu 10 lutego 2004 r.

ISSN 1643-2851 SENAT RZECZYPOSPOLITEJ POLSKIEJ Zapis stenograficzny (1143) 87. posiedzenie.rplvml2fkurq\urgrzlvnd w dniu 10 lutego 2004 r. V kadencja

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SRVLHG]HQLH.RPLVML 2FKURQ\ URGRZLVND 3DQL0LQLVWHUWR*H«=UHV]WZM]\NXDQJLHOVNLPWREU]PLFDáNLHPLQDF]HMWR MHVWWáXPDF]HQLH1RQLHGDMP\VLSU]H]W\FKLPSHULDOLVWyZRJáXSLDü (:HVRáRüQDVDOL) -DNLPSHULDOLFLFRZ\P\OWRP\PDP\WRNRSLRZDü"-DXZD*DP*HMHVWWR ZUF]QLHSU]\]ZRLWH±WRMHVWSLHUZV]DVSUDZDZL*FDVL]GUXJ 0DP\ Z 3ROVFH RNUHORQ\ V\VWHP REV]DUyZ FKURQLRQ\FK RG SDUNyZ QDURGo- Z\FKSU]H]NUDMREUD]RZHREV]DU\FKURQLRQHJRNUDMREUD]XUH]HUZDW\SU]\URG\X*\WNL HNRORJLF]QHSRSRPQLNLSU]\URG\,ZWHQ]ZDUW\V\VWHPZFKRG]REV]DU\VLHFLÄ1DWXUD '*\P\GRWHJRDMX*ZáDFLZLHPDP\MHGQWU]HFLNUDMXREMWRFKURQ PLHP WZLHUG]Lü *H MHVW WR ILNFMD -D MHVWHP SDVMRQDWHP RFKURQ\ SU]\URG\ ixerohzdp QDG WILNFM 1D SU]\NáDG ]GHF\GRZDQD ZLNV]Rü FK\ED SDUNyZ krajobrazowych nie ma programów ochrony, bo jest to kosztowne. Program ochrony GOD SDUNX NUDMREUD]RZHJR NRV]WXMH NLONDG]LHVLW MHOL QLH NLONDVHW W\VLF\ ]árw\fk :RMHZRGRZLHQLHPDMSLHQLG]\*HE\MHURELü -DPRJNRQNUHWQLHSRZLHG]LHüZZRMHZyG]WZLHZLHONRSROVNLPJG]LHMHVWWU]y- QDFLHSDUNyZNUDMREUD]RZ\FKMHGHQPDSURJUDPRFKURQ\,GHIDFWRQDGF]\PEDUG]R XEROHZDPSDUNLNUDMREUD]RZHVILNFM*PLQ\ QLHEDUG]RVLOLF]:]DU]G]LHSDr- NyZNUDMREUD]RZ\FKSUDFXMHSDURVyENWyUHQLHVZVWDQLHUHJXORZDüVSUDZ]ZL]a- Q\FK]UR]ZRMHPEXGRZQLFWZD:QDV]\PNUDMXSRVWSXMHROEU]\PLDXUEDQL]acja. 0\WDNMDNZGDZQ\FKVRFMDOLVW\F]Q\FK F]DVDFK FKHáSLP\ VL OLF]EDPL7\VLFH KHNWDUyZFKURQLRQ\FKDGHIDFWRMDNSRZLHG]LDáHPSR]DSDUNDPLQDURGRZ\PLSR]RVWDáH REV]DU\«1R V MHV]F]H UH]HUZDW\ 7X PXV] SRZLHG]LHü*H WDN MDN REVHUZX M GX* URORGJU\ZDMOHQLF\NWyU]\EDUG]RNRQVHNZHQWQLHFKURQLWRFRPDSRGOHJDüRFKURQLH -DXZD*DP*HSDVWZRMDNRPLQLVWHUVWZRSRZLQQLFLHPLHüW\OHRGZDJL*HE\ WHQFDá\SURJUDPÄ1DWXUD ZSDVRZDüZSROVNLV\VWHPRFKURQ\±F]\WREGRb- V]DU\FKURQLRQHJRNUDMREUD]XF]\QDZHWPR*HSDUNLNUDMREUD]RZH 1LH ZLHP F]\ SDQL PLQLVWHU ]GDMH VRELH VSUDZ *H Z VSRáHF]HVWZLH QDUDVWD DZHUVMD GR RFKURQ\ SU]\URG\ ']LDáDF]H RFKURQ\ SU]\URG\ OXG]LH G*F\ GR RFKURQ\ SU]\URG\ WUDNWRZDQL V MDNRG]LZDF\ MDNR OXG]LH RJUDQLF]DMF\ SRVWS WHFKQLF]Q\-HVW WDNLHEDUG]RUR]VGQHVIRUPXáRZDQLHVWUDWHJLD]UyZQRZD*RQHJRUR]ZRMX,WDNSRZLQQR E\ü2F]\ZLFLHP\PXVLP\FKURQLüSHZQHREV]DU\DOHMHOLEG]LHP\ZW\PELHGQ\P SDVWZLHFKFLHOLFKURQLüMHGQWU]HFLREV]DUyZWRQLHEG]LHP\FKURQLOLQDZHW 3DQL PLQLVWHU PyZL *H UROQLF\ MHOL EG QD WHUHQDFK REMW\FK SURJUDPHP Natura EGRWU]\P\ZDOLRNUHORQ\HNZLZDOHQW ( Powinni.) Ale jest problem: co powinni? 3DQLPLQLVWHU]DSHZQH]QDSUREOHPGROLQ\1RWHFLNWyUDMHVWREMWDW\PSURJUa- PHP JG]LH PLDáD SRZVWDü ZLHOND IHUPD ZLDWURZD :VNXWHN RSRUX ZRMHZyG]NLHJR NRQVHUZDWRUDSU]\URG\SRZVWDáNRQIOLNWPLG]\ZáDG]DPLVDPRU]GRZ\PLSDUXJPLQ DXU]GHPZRMHZyG]NLP&LOXG]LHXZD*DM*HWZRU]HQLHWDNLHJRREV]DUXWRVMDNLH IDQDEHULH,PXV]SRZLHG]LHü*HPDMUDFM2GZLHOXODWWDPPR*QDE\áRRWZRU]\ü SDUNNUDMREUD]RZ\ERWHUHQ\VDWUDNF\MQHDOHJRQLHVWZRU]RQR$ZWHMFKZLOLJG\ ]QDOH(OLVLLQZHVWRU]\WRSRGSUHWHNVWHPSURJUDPXÄ1DWXUD KDPXMHVLPR*Oi- ZRFLUR]ZRMXW\FKDXWHQW\F]QLHELHGQ\FKJPLQ =D GX*R PyZL.UyWNR SRZLHP MD XZD*DP*H SURJUDP Ä1DWXUD 2000 powi- QLHQE\üZNRPSRQRZDQ\ZLVWQLHMF\Z3ROVFHV\VWHPRFKURQ\SU]\URG\ERP\PQo- 12 1143/V

w dniu 10 lutego 2004 r. *\P\Uy*QHG]LZROJLWDNLHMDNREV]DU\VSHFMDOQHMRFKURQ\VSHFMDOQHREV]DU\RFKURQ\ -H*HOLF]áRZLHNQLHMHVWZVWDQLHSRMüSHZQ\FKU]HF]\WRSU]HVWDMHVLW\PSU]HMPRZDü -D MHVWHP G]LDáDF]HP /LJL 2FKURQ\ 3U]\URG\ E\ZDP QD Uy*Q\FK VSRWNDQLDFK ipxv]srzlhg]lhü*hrgsduxodwvsrw\ndpvl]qhjdw\zq\psrghmflhpgr]djdd- QLH RFKURQ\ SU]\URG\ ± L VáXV]Q\P L QLHVáXV]Q\P 1D SU]\NáDG :LHONRSROVNL 3DUN 1DURGRZ\±SUHVMDV]ODNyZNRQQ\FK7DPZáDFLZLHND*G\PGXNWHPFKFLHOLE\MH(G]Lü NRQLDU]H%LHGQ\G\UHNWRUURELFRPR*HQDUD]LHXGDMHPXVLDOHSUHVMD]DUyZQRVa- PRU]GXMDNLSRMHG\QF]\FKZáDFLFLHOLMHVWRlbrzymia., MHV]F]H FKFHP\ ZSURZDG]Lü FR LQQHJR ER LPSHULDOLFL WHJR FKF 0\ VZRMH SWDNLFKURQLP\=UHV]WMDQD]DNRF]HQLHSRZLHPSDVWZXFLHNDZRVWN1DUDGDFKQa- XNRZ\FK:LHONRSROVNLHJR3DUNX1DURGRZHJRWUZDG\VSXWDF]\FKURQLüJVLF]\U\E\ 3DQL SURIHVRU SRZLHG]LDáD FKZLO WHPX *H SWDNL V PGUH *VL SU]HORWQH RG SDUX ODW QRFXMQD-H]LRU]H*yUHFNLP QDMáDGQLHMV]\P] MH]LRU:LHONRSROVNL V WR W\VLFH JVL 1LH ]EXGRZDá\ VRELH XELNDFML ]DQLHF]\V]F]DM WR MH]LRUR NWyUH GR QLHGDZQD PLDáR SLHUZV]NODVF]\VWRFLDWHUD]PDMX*WU]HFL2UQLWRORG]\XZD*DM*HQLHZROQRLP QLF]URELü,FKWLRORG]\FKFMHVWUDV]\üSHWDUGDPLF]\FRWDNLHJR:W\PURNXSROLF]o- QR*HE\áRRNRáRGZXG]LHVWXW\VLF\JVLQDMH]LRU]HNWyUHMHVWUH]HUZDWHP7DN*HSWa- NLSU]H*\MZ3ROVFH2QHVPGUHER]DPLDVWOHFLHüQDVVLHGQLHMH]LRURDymaczew- VNLHZLNV]HJG]LHVOHSV]HZDUXQNLWRMDGWDP&]\UDF]HM±QLHMDGDOHF Ja krótko powiem: jestem bardzo sceptycznie nastawiony do teoretycznych podstaw ochrony przyrody w programie Natura -D±MX*SRZLHPSROLW\F]QLH±QLH QDOH*GR6DPRREURQ\DOHXZD*DP«(:\SRZLHG(SR]DPLNURIRQHP) 1RPR*HVL]DSLV]-DNSDQSU]HZRGQLF]F\PLND*HWRVL]DSLV] (:\SRZLHG(SR]DPLNURIRQHP) $OHFKFSRZLHG]LHüMHGQR*HQLHPR*HP\QDND*G\PNURNXXOHJDüLPSHULDOi- VWRP -D SHV\PLVW\F]QLH SRZLHP*H SU]H] UR]EXGRZ\ZDQLH IRUP RFKURQ\ SU]\URG\ GHZDOXXMHP\ WH ZLHONLH RVLJQLFLD NWyUH PDP\ 0DP\ GREUH SDUNL QDURGRZH So- ZLQQLP\PLHüGREUHNUDMREUD]RZHDMDNWRMHV]F]HGRMG]LHWREG]LHWDNMDNE\P\ GRNRWáD]XS\GRGDOLMHV]F]HOZRG\±SR]LRPZRG\ZNRWOHVLSRGQLHVLHD]XSD EG]LHUR]ZRGQLRQD']LNXM ']LNXM SDQX VHQDWRURZL ]D WR EDUG]R ZD*NLH Z\VWSLHQLH ']LNXM EDUG]R 'RQLF]HJRSDQD3DQLH6HQDWRU]HQLHQDPDZLDPLQLHEGQDPDZLDá (:\SRZLHG(SR]DPLNURIRQHP) 'REU]HGREU]H1LHEGQDPDZLDá %DUG]RSURV]NWR]SDLSDQyZVHQDWRUyZFKFLDáE\]DEUDüJáRV"%DUG]RSUo- V]0R*H]DSURV]HQLJRFLH"3URV]EDUG]R0R*HSDQLVHQDWRU.OHSDF]" 6HQDWRU$SRORQLD.OHSDF]EDUG]RSURV] Senator Apolonia Klepacz: -DE\PPLDáDMHV]F]HMHGQRS\WDQLH7RMHVWZNRQWHNFLHW\FKSLHUZV]\FK]a- S\WD SDQD VHQDWRUD %DFKOHG\.VLG]XODU]D R WH Uy*QLFH ]GD SRPLG]\ OHQLNDPL a realizatorami programu Natura 2000 w krqwhnflhsurfhvxlqzhvw\f\mqhjrnrvz- 1143/V 13

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